Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ken Vickets on July 22, 2014 at 3:22pm

He's putting together a series of instructional vids and he needs financial support.....big project. Check out you tube under justin johnson

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Permalink Reply by robert jones on July 22, 2014 at 4:30pm

Three threads opened on one subject within an hour lacks symmetry, you'll need to add one more for balance.

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Permalink Reply by john mackay on July 24, 2014 at 12:01am

to be honest I think it a bit of a cheek to be asking for money to set up a business like venture.

even if it is a tutorial vids, if its a cause as I understand it charity?.

so is he planning selling the dvd's and all proceeds to charity? or his own pocket?

its a bit like me asking all classic bike owners to contribute in setting up a business,so that I can to sell them obsolete  parts that are no longer available.

if he want to help folks then why not do as you has done you tubes. you don't need fancy back ground.

he already has some you tubes post so why not??

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Permalink Reply by Ken Vickets on July 24, 2014 at 12:29am

Let's put it this way John.....he has probably done just about as much as anyone re: promoting this form and style of music and instruments. You are not required to contribute! The post was put up as a means of informing those people who may be interested in supporting this. I'm sorry if this offended your sensibilities. Yes....some people do this as a business....we all have to eat! I don't see any prob with them making a living out of this type of endeavour.

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Permalink Reply by john mackay on July 24, 2014 at 5:20am

it hasn't offend one iota.

the only way that I can be offended is a punch on the nose

some people do this as a business....we all have to eat!

and so do we.

when I started my business  ,I started with nothing and built it up over the years.

every thing in life is a gamble and I made mine .

I often get ask ..do I have this or that but I don't expect folks to cough up their cash in order for me to buy all that I need to set it up.

so as far as J.J concerned he has been doing this for several years so he say.

if so he should have saved up incase he need a new source of income or set up a new business ,

even if it is tutorial. how ever you look at its still a business.

 

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Permalink Reply by Ken Vickets on July 24, 2014 at 1:59am

That's exactly what he is doing Wayfinder. If you check out the youtube vid and go to the contribution site you can see what the incentives are.

http://youtu.be/2Qn1Dk7skS0

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Permalink Reply by ChickenboneJohn on July 24, 2014 at 6:14am

I have very mixed views on this sort of "crowd funding"...if there's an arrangement whereby you get back a return on your investment (that's your typical sort of sharefolder / investor deal), then I can see that's it's equitable on all sides, but to ask for money for your business venture just on the strength of a feel-good factor for the supporter, that feels a little one-sided.  I know I'm behind the times on this...and behind the game no doubt, and it's the way to go for many performers to make recordings etc...but there's always something in me that feels if you want to make it happen, you make it happen off your own back....you figure out your costs for labour, materials, bought-in services, overheads etc, you forecast the potential sales, figure out the percentage return, set a retail price  and determine a net profit...and put your own money and effort into it.  My daughters clued me up a bit more about crowd funding in the music scene..apparently there's a lot of projects don't reach the target level of contributions set by the entrepreneur (or artist/business person whatever you want to call them) ...so then the  project doesn't happen, and the money doesn't get given back...money for nothin'. I'm not casting aspersions on this project, but the basic principles sort of sit uneasily with me...but then I'm out of touch with these new fangled ways....

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Permalink Reply by ChickenboneJohn on July 25, 2014 at 5:29am

Well, a classic example of the potential thorny problems with Kickstarter.

Project target $6000, actual sum raised $13 000 plus..that's a straight bonus  profit $7k plus whatever profit was built into the original projections.

Here's some words lifted directly from the Kickstarter site...

"Some projects that are funded on Kickstarter may go on to make money, but backers are supporting projects to help them come to life, not financially profit."

That's patently impossible to control, as backers have no control whatever on how the money is used. In this example, what happens to the $7 000 "surplus"?

"Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?

No. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds as transactions are between backers and creators directly"

It indicates there are no real world obligations on the part of the entrepreneur. This is a heck of a feeble set-up that is all about making money rather than producing results..could that be because Kickstarter take a 5% cut of all money raised?

"Kickstarter cannot be used to offer financial returns or equity"

So Kickstarter actually forbids supporters benefitting in the usual business model as typified by shareholders or investors...a pretty cute twist on capitalism.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop at Justin for doing this, and if you want to plow money into it that's your concern, but it seems all the benefits are for the originator of the project, there's no real accountability, no control

Hmm...perhaps there's some tough moral questions to face if you start getting involved in a  Kickstarter project methinks.

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Permalink Reply by ChickenboneJohn on July 25, 2014 at 8:01am

I did wonder about all of this...looking at the promotion video and all, and was wondering.."Has this already been filmed and edited before the Kickstarter money was secured"..and indeed it has. A couple of days ago Justin announced on Facebook they'd finished the editing of the DVDs...so basically, it's all been done in advance. It appears that the project didn't  need the funding to make the project happen, because the project had already been completed. Very smart.

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Permalink Reply by Marc Brode on July 25, 2014 at 6:54am

It's a kickstart program... Crowdfunding... A way to raise capital from many investors rather than one or two. A lot of startup businesses do it. A lot of rock groups do it to raise money for an upcoming album

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Permalink Reply by robert jones on July 24, 2014 at 5:05am

To be fair, Mr. Johnson did not post this discussion.

He posted to his YouTube channel where it would be be viewed by his fans who would likely be interested in contributing to the project.

Professional quality video production is a great deal of work and consequently is not free.

His presentation of the project on his channel is not offensive and crowd funding is a viable business practice.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Vickets on July 24, 2014 at 11:55am

Thank you Wayfinder

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