So . . . ever since the advent of the CBG revolution - I have found that this is the demarcation line.

"Player" or "Builder"

The nation (God love it) has plenty of the latter, but notsomuch of the former.

The cigar box guitar is such a perfectly primitive instrument. It epitomizes "simplicity" and the raw joy of music. Music to the lowest common denominator. We all embrace the beauty of the instrument in that regard . . .

I suppose the nature of any "internet community" is that it can become SOooo specialized and sooo very deep in the particular interest . . . The trouble is: the case of CBG's, it makes for a bit of philosophical disconnect, doesnt it?

The nation is a GREAT collection point for ideas and a great gathering place where hobbyists can congregate. But when we delve, ad nauseum into the complete minutia of things like what-is-the-best-angle-for-a-scarf-joint and what-material-is-best-for-sound-hole-grommets - and analyze every aspect to the enth degree - do we lose a little bit of the raw "stick-in-the-box charm" of the cbg??

I've noticed that many of the early crowd of "players" have drifted away. Maybe what I feel is missing is not the role of "the nation", but I'd like to think there was *someplace* online that could focus on :the player: side . . . a place where the average curious Joe Citizen who doesn't want to launch into a "DIY hobby" could click and and simply find out where to go to experience the raw joy of people playing (I'll use Mr. Speal's word:) "Primal" music - locate cigar box guitar festivals, local bands playing this stuff etc. etc etc.

When we get THAT, the cbg movement becomes something akin to a musical genre,

am I alone in this thought?

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Yeah . . . . well I didn't really think we were tossing "hilarious absolute statements" around . . . but it sorta makes my point.

This is not really a spirited musical *movement* any more.

This is a hobbyists site
It's a damn fine one - and I congratulate all on it.
I suspect there are many that click between the links here and similar sites for building model railroads or grandfather clocks.
It's all good, I suppose.
As for myself, if it has evolved into a place where passion seems out of place, I'd just as soon shuffle off, join the rest of the first wave (save those who've figured out a commerce angle here) and fade away to concentrate on doing my own thing.

Knot out.

"This is not really a spirited musical *movement* any more."

Do something about it.

Guess this is the first point where I'll have to disagree. We're meeting once a month in St Louis Mo. Have a one day CGB festival coming in a few months. The fest is featuring a song writer contest. Builders AND players represented. It would not surprise me at all to see an open mic time at this festival in the future. With more of us getting performance confident.

Our meetings have been shop talk and jam. Both spirited and both getting good results. Honestly you can't have one without the other.

Holy Cow!  Go away for 48 hour and come back to?  Truth is everyone's right. Perception is reality.  The magic is when our realities mesh...or when I can acknowledge that your reality doesn't mesh with mine and still say.. "That's OK!" 

So a return to the good ol' days eh?

One of the things I like about the nation is that people are (generally) civil and show each other a little respect. I've had disagreements with people that don't turn into slanging matches, it's great.

Early on a lot of forums were completely dysfunctional but people have learned how to behave and one way is to accept that others will have different ideas, respect that and focus on what we have in common. Most people realise too that a group will evolve because everyone has different priorities, it's crazy to have expectations about how that will happen.

I'm happy not to return to the good ol' days.

Ahhh, passion! With Easter upon us, for those who believe, I suppose those who came centuries after the 12 original Apostles are just hobbyists, then ;-). I respectfully disagree with my Cuz, about this not being a "movement' any more, even though I wasn't here in the early days. Is the original passion there? Sure, it is: for every newbie who "discovers" CBGs and makes his way to this site seeking enlightenment; for every old timer who is still here dispensing opinion, advice and war stories. Did rock 'n' roll die out as a musical fad? Did the blues? Only if you ignored those giants who came after Carl Perkins, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry and Marty McFly. Every day is Back To The Future around here. The more things change, the more they remain the same, as the French have it. Passions ebb, morph, get rediscovered, get rejuvenated. Stevie Ray Vaughan kicks the blues in the ass with some intensity and speed picked Buddy Guy licks, and viola! the Blues is back bigger than ever. Buncha disgruntled musico-hobbyists rediscover Bo Diddley's homemade guitar, go down to Robert Johnson's crossroads with carefully cleaned chicken bones, and begin cluttering up their man caves with memorabilia Americana, and whaddaya get? No, not CB Demille martyring Christians in the arena; you get a vibrant, generally respectful community of like-minded individuals, some of whom are rediscovering the joys of simple or complex music for the first or umpteenth time, others of whom are channeling their inner Leo Fender and Jim Marshall. Do you really wanna go back to high school? Do you really wanna rekindle the passion of the back seat? It's easy: Play. Build. Do both. Proselytize. Get jiggy wid it. Party on. It's all good.

I sense from some of the more established members that they miss the days when the Cigar Box Guitar thing used to occupy a tiny niche... but I thought the idea of the 'revolution' was to bring it to new people, so others could share in the experience.

It's great that so many people on this site have picked up a new instrument, for some even their first instrument, and are learning to make music - it's one of the best things you can do with your time, regardless of whether you're annoying the wife with Bad to the Bone or tabbing out Beethoven's 5th for a 3 string.

It's also great that so many people have picked up tools, and again some for the first time, and made something. In a world of controlled obsolescence and disposable consumerism, the closest thing most people get to actually creating something is assembling a Billy bookcase from Ikea. Even if you're a builder who doesn't play - good on you for getting your hands dirty and making something. You should still have a bash at playing though :)

I also feel (please correct me if I'm wrong) that although CBN has well over 10K members, the actual active community is much smaller. I don't know if many of you are familiar with 'Dunbar's number', but it's a theory on a suggested cognitive limit for the maximum number of people one can have stable, peaceful relationships with, like a tribe. The number is suggested to be between 150-230, much like a tribe structure. Higher numbers would require tighter rules and enforcement, and would also have more disconnection between individuals, which for me is why CBN is such a warm and welcoming community (with 'no rules'), and conversely if you went and read the comments section on an article for a high circulation newspaper website (or a popular YouTube video) there would be diatribe, drivel and disagreement spilling all over the place... just a thought.

I think what I'm trying to say is - this is a movement in its adolescence, and it can only grow from here. As of now it's a great place to hang out with a great community. It's got me interested in music again, and now I'd put making things at the absolute top of my hobby list.

Interesting that you should mention Dunbar's number.

I first encountered it in a seminar on managing/administering a growing Christian church. Sure enough, there's a point where one big happy family becomes three big happy families--and two of 'em were planning to use the Fellowship Hall on the same evening without checking the calendar first.

Upper management has to understand that this conflict and diversity is a normal by-product of healthy growth and the entire membership has to learn that it's okay to not know everyone, but those strangers who're playing bluegrass in the basement have as much right here as you do--and besides, they're really nice people in their own weird way.

Fascinating discussion. Carry on...

TN

Now I have been around since the yahoo days, though I hope I was always one for looking for the reason in both sides of the old arguments. Still, I have to say I do not miss the days of people getting banned and bad intentions getting thrown from member to member. I do think disagreement is healthy but It can be done with respect and is done here like that all the time. I personally think the spark that is missing for players as opposed to builders is probably all Shane Speal. He kept that magic alive with his record label and push to move the movement forward for all. I also have to say that I can not blame him for moving on in many ways. His career is moving forward faster with out the baggage of running this site. Just saying. My point, though is that if a few driven musicians wanted to pick up the torch it can still be all it ever was for musicians up here. With the invention of band camp the idea of a micro label has never been easier. Also with all the players up here who do perform we should be networking with each other to bring new players to your area. Even if it is us who put each other up in our houses and apartments in order to make if workable for someone to drive a few hours just to play. When I first found these things years ago, Shane was one of the first people to help promote my music. He linked people to my videos and even contributed the cover to my first cd. He eventually put my band the Jeruselem Mules on his lable. We could still be pushing each other forward like this is all I am saying. We could use the site to network with each other on numerous projects. The down side to this is that it takes time and for some, me included it is hard to find time to book shows and make flyers as well as work and raise a family. Still, I would be interested in helping I just do not know if I have time to lead. Anyway, I think this site has everything we need to make this happen and that there is enough room for all parts of the movement to thrive here. I also think Ben does a great job keeping this machine running for all of us. In the end it is up to us to do something with it. Solutions are harder to find than problems......matt

Well, OK - I hear and bow to the chorus of reason.
It's a different time. I get it.
Let moderation and tolerance prevail.
Never let it be said that I'm just a dinosaur living in the past.

Bottom line:
A little of the magic gives way to technicality . . . so be it.
The Nation is what it is: The global hands-on CBG resource network, not an "audience portal"

I do think there's also a need for the latter.
Am I willing to take that on? . . . . . Hmm - probably not . . . but I will contemplate further.

Thanks friends, for helping me think through this.

Blaaaa Blaaaa Blaaaaaa........

Cuz,

Funny you should mention audience portal. I send my original tunes to 3 or 4 souls whose musicality I respect. After their comments, I typically post my songs here, and on bandcamp. Then I find other featured players here, dig their stuff, and point these back to my friends. I have a very tiny, but budding, community of CBGers in Saudi Arabia now. We are getting ready to have a blues night in a month, at which I will play originals and oldies, as well as MC. I just turned a bunch of people on to Seasick Steve last week. CBN is an audience portal, too; you just gotta listen as well as look.

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