The Beginners Club

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Comment by ChickenboneJohn on October 7, 2012 at 2:21am

Sealing the body of a cigar box guitar?...history is my witness....Helmholtz (to my knowledge) never built a cigarbox guitar, neither did he have to open one up when he had a dry solder joint....but he did say "Whoever in the pursuit of science, seeks after immediate practical utility may rest assured that he seeks in vain"

...or as a French philosopher one asked  "Zat is all vairy well in practice M'sieur, but 'ow does it work in theory?"  

I rest my case...

Comment by SD Helfrich on October 6, 2012 at 10:52pm

It's actually pretty important to properly seal the body of any acoustic instrument. I can't imagine that a CBG would be any different, but I've seen a lot of examples of acoustic CBGs online that still open, which would effect the volume a lot more than the size of the soundholes.

The quick and dirty explaination of Helmholtz Resonance is that the air in a guitar body is "springy" because it is static. If you keep the air "springy" then the sound waves will bounce around inside the body until they escape through the soundholes, which cause the soundholes to oscillate and create sound.

When there are too many places for air to move through the body, the air becomes "flat". When that happens, the soundwaves don't resonate properly, and every gap in the guitar body oscillates, so less soundwaves are being forced through the soundholes causing a reduction in volume. 

My guess is that if you have no pickup at all in your CBG, it's probably a pretty good idea to 1: Limit the size and number of holes in the body to conform with common sense, and 2: Run a bead of woodglue around every inside corner and fitting inside the box, then put in some braces if you need to and glue the lid down tight before you string it.

-SD-

Comment by Wichita Sam on August 6, 2012 at 10:18pm

Jamie,

Most CBGs will never be acoustically powerful.  Good for strumming on the porch, but never going to the concert hall unless amplified.   Amplified a CBG can be a force to be reconned with.  I've done several CBGs with pups that didn't have or need sound holes.

Here's a pic of a three string fretless baritone CBG that I build for Shane Speal.  It has been featured on both stage and album work... without the benefit of a soundhole.

the nice thing about CBGs is that you can try different things and see what works for you.

 

the best,

 

Sam

Comment by jamie bark on August 6, 2012 at 9:07pm

Thanks Sam, I was trying to rationalize the size of a box compared to the size of a dreadnaught body, and I didn't think it would need to be very big. I have a CGB I purchased that has three 1" holes in a punch box that sounds pretty good. I put two 1/2 inch holes in a java box and it's a little quiet... seen a few made with 2-3" holes and I thought that might be overkill... I guess if I add a pickup, I wont worry too much about it.

Comment by Wichita Sam on August 6, 2012 at 7:46pm

anything over 1" is not needed and can reduce volume by reducing area of the top.  Several great builders have done CBGs with sound holes on the box sides (top, or flanking the neck) that work just fine.

Comment by jamie bark on August 5, 2012 at 10:06pm

Anyone know the relationship between the size of the box and size of the soundhole to get the most sound out of the guitar? Trying to be practical with my designs and get the best sound I can. I imagine the size of the box is the biggest concern, but without making several CGB's with the same box, I dont know how I could experiment accurately.

Comment by Wichita Sam on July 16, 2012 at 10:10am

this link http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/building-two-identical-3...  has a discussion on fretboard leveling. 

Here's another link http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/thebeginnersclub?commentId=2592... .  About 1/2 way down the page, I offer a step by step way (with pictures) to get a perfectly level fret/fingerboard.

 

that ought to get you going.

 

the best,

 

Wichita Sam

Comment by jamie bark on July 15, 2012 at 11:42pm

Thanks Sam, I want to play on the fretboard too, but I think to get a better understanding, maybe I should do one fretless to start with. I have enough material to build a couple necks, so I'll give in to the natural progression of how most folks do it. Any groups on here dedicated to neck designs/ configurations? Been searching the groups a little, but not finding anything yet. 

Comment by Wichita Sam on July 15, 2012 at 4:25pm

There are things you can do with a fretted instrument and you can't with a fretless and vise-versa.   You will get more precise innotation fretted than fretless, but you can get the bluesy slide sound (unless you go with a higher action, but that effects the innotation).

 

Many start wth a fretless, because it is technically easier to build and then move on to fretted later.  Depends a lot on your confidence with your building skills and the sound you want.

 

In either case, it's all about the neck.  Get that fretboard dead level or your will get buzzing and strange notes even on a fretless, unless the you keep the action so high that you never, ever note on the fret/fingerboard.

Comment by jamie bark on July 15, 2012 at 4:06pm

About to attempt my first build and I am wondering how important a fretted neck is vs fretless, burned in frets, etc... To what degree will frets affect the sound? Slide vs traditional playing issues, etc? Kicking around a few design ideas and answers to these questions will (I hope) help me decide and get building-lol.

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