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Comment by colin mcgrath on December 4, 2010 at 10:58am

maybe not TOUCHING but side by side.

Comment by colin mcgrath on December 4, 2010 at 7:27am

Here is a question: Can one place 2 magnets side by side (touching) and wind it, and get a good result for one string? Or is there a reason that there is space between mag's other than string spacing?

Comment by carverman on December 3, 2010 at 2:22am

Thanks Eric for the education on bobbin winding. I would have never
believed that you can get that many turns on a sewing machine bobbin..
live and learn as they say. I wasn't concerned so much about the
dc resistance of the copper, but the inductance of the coil which
aslo plays a big part in the sound signature in regards to frequencies
rather than output.

I'll visit your page and perhaps continue this discussion.

Comment by eric gittins on December 3, 2010 at 1:57am

Ah, well done carverman for proving you're never too old to stop learning! Believe! You can fit about 8,500 turns of AWG42 winding wire on a sewing machine bobbin, for a total DC resistance of about 2K2Ohms.
The low DC resistance doesn't mean the output is low, it just means each loop of the coil was shorter, so less wire overall.
This is nothing like les paul's low impedance pups he designed, which I believe were super low turn windings - this is normal style windings on a shorter bobbin, so output is the same as it would be for a six string with similar winds.
I put a couple of pics up on my page of a wound and unwound bobbin, for the interested or unbelieving. Output on this coil with a 3/16 alnico V rod magnet stuck inside, is comparable to a standard strat pickup (as you would expect from those turns).
You could also put a magnet underneath the coil and use a bit of 1/4 inch bolt as a slug through the bobbin.Try it for yourself, cheap and easy!

Comment by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on December 2, 2010 at 10:59am

OK, we are taking about the same bobbin then. The rest i know nothing about.

Comment by carverman on December 2, 2010 at 10:34am

From my understanding, scatter wound were originally hand wound in
a random fashion around the bobbin. This would give the bobbin and
the magnetic flux of the winding a different sound signature from
a more consistent machine wound, where the layers are wound
neater and tighter. Bluesy sounds from a pickup is a interesting
subject. The orignal Single coil would have a more pronounced
bluesy "growl" tone over a smoother sounding humbucker.

That "edge" as sometimes referred to, is a combination of many things, one being a honking big magnet and larger coil. The larger
the coil and magnet, the more magnetic steady state flux will occur
for the strings to cut and induce a voltage. The tone pot and cap
is just a low pass filter. The capacitor value determines the rolloff
frequency...the larger the value, the sooner it rolls off, so you will
have a more bassier-mellow sound (.047uf)..the smaller (.01uf) the more "bite" or treble will still be apparent.
Others may have more info on this.

Comment by carverman on December 2, 2010 at 10:10am

Ok, I'll leave the bobbin winding to those in the know. BTW..I was
referring to the dropin bobbin in the sewing machine, not the spool.
I still find it hard to believe that you can actually get enough wire
on those small spools to make the pickup "growl"

As far as alnico magnets..Alinico II to V, and apparently there are
some newer versions as well. (Alnico 8 which are stronger),
.the composition of the magnet material
Aluminum, Nickel and Cobalt are the main ingredients, but there
is also more to the magnets than just the ingredients. The magnetizing process has a lot to do with it as well.

Comment by Mama Mojo on December 2, 2010 at 3:26am

I have installed one of skeesix's 3-pole pups in one of my guitars and wow - that thing lives up to it's "scorch and twang" name! I highly recommend them to anyone who wants to experiment with putting a dedicated 3 or 4 pole pup in an instrument. I've tried others on the market and so far her's is the best. I should add thought that I have not had the opportunity to try Juju's pups, which sound awesome on his videos. One of the things that is really important to me is how the pup is potted, and Skeesix does her's in wax (the one I have is done that way). I think that it makes for a much more solid pup than one that is just dipped in varnish. That wire, as noted, is fragile as can be.... Anyway, I say this because when skeesix speaks on this subject, I listen! The woman knows her stuff....

I am also looking to wind my own pups to put into my own guitars so I can offer a variety of options on my instruments. I have questions about the differences between scatter wound and regular winding, as well as how many winds makes a nice bluesy tone (I know caps on the tone pot also make a difference here). So if one where going for bluesy, how many winds on a 3pole? 4pole? and for hot, I am assuming more.... And I know that some people use Alnico 2 instead of 5 when they are upgrading fender pups - any thoughts on the differences in magnets?

Thanks so much - I appreciate all of the contributions on this topic.

Comment by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on December 2, 2010 at 2:50am

The plastic bobbins they are talking about are the ones with a small inside diameter used for the thread under the foot that you don't see, not the spool that has all the thread on it that you buy with the thread. Sounds like a neat low cost, low work way to do it.

Comment by carverman on December 2, 2010 at 2:16am

I find this discussion rather interesting, being an electrical "type",
I find it hard to believe that you can get enough turns on a 1 inch
diameter sewing machine bobbin, even if you use #43 guage copper.
The inside diameter of the bobbin is very small..(lets say 3/16 of an
inch) and the outside is about 1 inch or so. How many feet of copper wire can you wind on something like that. If it takes 6 inches
to go around a preformed plastic pickup spool for one turn, it's not
going to take 6 inches (more more 1/4 to 1/2 inch per turn
on the first few turns and maybe an inch or less on the last few turns. So for arguments sake, say a 50 to 100 feet, if you consider that cotton thread is thicker.
turns and

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