The 3-String Dulcijo and Other Diatonically Scaled Banjos with Re-Entrant Tuning - Cigar Box Nation2024-03-29T13:35:33Zhttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/the-3string-dulcijo-and-other?groupUrl=banjoplayersunite&commentId=2592684%3AComment%3A820805&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noA reader asked "What scale le…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2012-07-29:2592684:Comment:11891692012-07-29T02:01:15.794ZRand Moorehttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/RandMoore
<p>A reader asked "What scale length is used in the original Dulcijo?", which I didn't know the answer to. So, I did a search and came across a reply that Michael Fox (the Dulcijo inventer) made on a forum discussing the Dulcijo, and in it he said his instruments use a 25.5" scale length, similar to many other dulcimers. My only caution is that the diatonic fretboard has wide fret spacings, so if you are a chord player, you hopefully have a long (and easy) reach with the fingers on your…</p>
<p>A reader asked "What scale length is used in the original Dulcijo?", which I didn't know the answer to. So, I did a search and came across a reply that Michael Fox (the Dulcijo inventer) made on a forum discussing the Dulcijo, and in it he said his instruments use a 25.5" scale length, similar to many other dulcimers. My only caution is that the diatonic fretboard has wide fret spacings, so if you are a chord player, you hopefully have a long (and easy) reach with the fingers on your fretting hand. My fingers are rather averaged size, and so I build a shorter instrument, usualy with a 500mm (about 20") scale length. I'd recommend finding a diatonic scale length you are happy playing with, and then build your instrument to that spec.</p>
<p>Happy Building...</p>
<p>-Rand.</p> Hi rand the tail pice was act…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-09-15:2592684:Comment:8208052011-09-15T08:48:21.920ZMal Chilvershttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/MalChilvers
Hi rand the tail pice was actallky a manderlin tail piece I bought off e bay but I sometimes us brass picture nangers, the ones used if you have the olds type picture rails that where places just before the freeze high up on walls Mal (UK) The only trouble with dowel are that they have got to be drilled level ,which is a majer problem for me as I have a bad tremmer
Hi rand the tail pice was actallky a manderlin tail piece I bought off e bay but I sometimes us brass picture nangers, the ones used if you have the olds type picture rails that where places just before the freeze high up on walls Mal (UK) The only trouble with dowel are that they have got to be drilled level ,which is a majer problem for me as I have a bad tremmer Hi Mal,
Thanks for the additi…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-09-15:2592684:Comment:8203062011-09-15T05:45:52.101ZRand Moorehttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/RandMoore
<p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p>Thanks for the additional photos. Don't sweat the "ugliness" of your detail photos. Many of my closeups also show what amounts to poor workmanship, and it's likely one of the reason so many people don't bother to upload their building detail photos. I do see from looking at them that you used a "neck almost thru design", rather than a using a couple of long, stout dowels for the neck thru. That's fine. I'm thinking of using the dowels on the drum based dulcijo I've been…</p>
<p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p>Thanks for the additional photos. Don't sweat the "ugliness" of your detail photos. Many of my closeups also show what amounts to poor workmanship, and it's likely one of the reason so many people don't bother to upload their building detail photos. I do see from looking at them that you used a "neck almost thru design", rather than a using a couple of long, stout dowels for the neck thru. That's fine. I'm thinking of using the dowels on the drum based dulcijo I've been planning in my head.</p>
<p>Your metal tail piece also looks interesting. What was it before you turned it into a tail piece? I have been having problems with my wooden tail pieces as the wire strings either slowly cuts through the wood as you tune and re-tune the instrument, or the tail piece pops-off (if not secured with a couple or three screws), or the tail piece snaps in two. So, my latest tail pieces are made from red oak and are fairly stout. I also have been playing around with bull clips (used to clip together lots of papers). The bull clips I break into 2 pieces, then drill holes on the part that normally would hold the papers together. I'm planning to use a screw through the hole in the handle of the half bull clip to scure it to the tail end of the box. Will likely use it in my next instrument.</p>
<p>The photo of your third (short) string tuner wasn't really clear enough to explain how it was mounted. What type of tuner are you using? Is it a banjo's 5th String tuner, a ukulele friction tuner, or a guitar style geared tuner. Maybe a diagram of how the tuner is mounted into the neck would help explain things. This is one area I need to study before I get around to doing my next dulcijo build. May require more research.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Well, thanks again for the photos. I think they help describe your build better.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am not much of a musician either, and so my playing style tends to be playing the melody on string 1 freting up and down the neck rather than across the neck as most banjo or guitar players would, and using the second and third strings as a simple drone. Since I built my mountain dulcimer (which have the strings in the opposite order) I found the drone sounds better and the melody is a bit clearer on the MD as compared to stick dulcimers (strum sticks, strummers, call 'em what you like). So, my conclusion is that as a player, to get the same clarity and sweetness of tone on a stick dulcimer, you have to play with an up-stroke (up-strum) as opposed to a down-stroke (down-strum). You might give that a try on your dulcijo.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Rand.</p> Hi Rand,Im afraid I am no mus…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-09-15:2592684:Comment:8203012011-09-15T04:57:42.240ZMal Chilvershttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/MalChilvers
Hi Rand,Im afraid I am no musiction but I m tying to learn claw hammer.I fixed the neck on using the sbg method, but not much of a crafts man.I also have nearly finshed a<br />
<br></br>resonator ukulele using one of old lowes cones., my next prdject is to make a stick dulcimer, my fourth usinf a 4 1/2"resonator cone,plus I am waiting to recieve delivery of a 6" cone and cover plate from rebublic guiats to make a cigar box ukulele.I am 70 years youne in two weeks and there is no way I am going to turn…
Hi Rand,Im afraid I am no musiction but I m tying to learn claw hammer.I fixed the neck on using the sbg method, but not much of a crafts man.I also have nearly finshed a <br />
<br>resonator ukulele using one of old lowes cones., my next prdject is to make a stick dulcimer, my fourth usinf a 4 1/2"resonator cone,plus I am waiting to recieve delivery of a 6" cone and cover plate from rebublic guiats to make a cigar box ukulele.I am 70 years youne in two weeks and there is no way I am going to turn into a vegitable sat in a corner playing with two piecs of string,we have a saying in yorkshire,if you dont use it loose it and belevce me the only time my brain is going to stop ticking over is when I,m in my box lol Mal (UK)
<br>
<cite>Rand Moore said:</cite> <br />
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p>That's a real handsome looking instrument. That drum looks great.</p>
<p>Your photo was really hi-res, so I lowered the resolution and embedded it here so everyone can easily view it:</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/305745072?profile=original"><img width="504" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/305745072?profile=original" class="align-full"></a>Maybe a few more photos would be good. I'd like to see a shot of the reverse side of the drum, focusing on how you attached the neck to the drum, a shot of the tail piece, and a shot of how you attached the 3rd string tuner. I guess the drum you used has tension adjusting hardware so you can adjust the drum head tension depending on weather conditions. I think that's a good feature to have. How do you like playing your Dulcijos? Any observations?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Rand</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote> Hi Mal,
That's a real handso…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-09-15:2592684:Comment:8202862011-09-15T04:07:05.472ZRand Moorehttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/RandMoore
<p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p>That's a real handsome looking instrument. That drum looks great.</p>
<p>Your photo was really hi-res, so I lowered the resolution and embedded it here so everyone can easily view it:</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/305745072?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/305745072?profile=original" width="504"></img></a> Maybe a few more photos would be good. I'd like to see a shot of the reverse side of the drum, focusing on how you attached the neck to the drum, a shot of the tail…</p>
<p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p>That's a real handsome looking instrument. That drum looks great.</p>
<p>Your photo was really hi-res, so I lowered the resolution and embedded it here so everyone can easily view it:</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/305745072?profile=original"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/305745072?profile=original" width="504"></a>Maybe a few more photos would be good. I'd like to see a shot of the reverse side of the drum, focusing on how you attached the neck to the drum, a shot of the tail piece, and a shot of how you attached the 3rd string tuner. I guess the drum you used has tension adjusting hardware so you can adjust the drum head tension depending on weather conditions. I think that's a good feature to have. How do you like playing your Dulcijos? Any observations?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Rand</p>
<p> </p> Hi guys I just finished my se…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-09-15:2592684:Comment:8201242011-09-15T02:19:20.222ZMal Chilvershttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/MalChilvers
H<br></br>i guys I just finished my second dulcijo yesterday,I used a tunable had drum with a 26 1/2" scale length.I am realy peased with it.Mal<br></br><cite>Rand Moore said:</cite>
<blockquote><div><p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Congratulations on your first dulcijo! I think you will find it a fun and easy instrument to play.</p>
<p>The original Dulcijo used three .009" diameter strings, but I string mine up with a slightly fatter string for my second string (tuned an octave lower). If you have some…</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
H<br/>i guys I just finished my second dulcijo yesterday,I used a tunable had drum with a 26 1/2" scale length.I am realy peased with it.Mal<br/><cite>Rand Moore said:</cite>
<blockquote><div><p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Congratulations on your first dulcijo! I think you will find it a fun and easy instrument to play.</p>
<p>The original Dulcijo used three .009" diameter strings, but I string mine up with a slightly fatter string for my second string (tuned an octave lower). If you have some banjo strings, then use the string 1, string 2 and string or strings 1, 2 and 3 of the dulcijo, respectively. If all you have are guitar strings, then try two number 1 (e) strings and a number 2 (b) string. Feel free to experiment with different string. If you are going for a lower tuned instrument, then maybe two #2 and one #3 (unwound). If you are okay with wound strings (I don't like them if I'm likely to fret the string), then you can go lower yet.If not tuning to A'-A-D, then try to maintain the same ratios (pattern) in a lower tuning (i.e. 8-1-4) to get the same dulcijo effect in the lower tuning.</p>
<p>I gave my dulcijo to a friend in the States. Back in China now (arrived just this morning). When I get around to building my next dulcijo/banjo -like instrument, I will also use a hand drum and string it up like a stick dulcimer, but then and a 4th short drone string. So, essentially, a 4 string (non-plectrum, non-tenor) banjo. Always experimenting.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Rand.</p>
</div>
</blockquote> Hi Mal,
Congratulations on…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-08-12:2592684:Comment:7291462011-08-12T06:39:33.353ZRand Moorehttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/RandMoore
<p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Congratulations on your first dulcijo! I think you will find it a fun and easy instrument to play.</p>
<p>The original Dulcijo used three .009" diameter strings, but I string mine up with a slightly fatter string for my second string (tuned an octave lower). If you have some banjo strings, then use the string 1, string 2 and string or strings 1, 2 and 3 of the dulcijo, respectively. If all you have are guitar strings, then try two number 1 (e) strings and a number 2…</p>
<p>Hi Mal,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Congratulations on your first dulcijo! I think you will find it a fun and easy instrument to play.</p>
<p>The original Dulcijo used three .009" diameter strings, but I string mine up with a slightly fatter string for my second string (tuned an octave lower). If you have some banjo strings, then use the string 1, string 2 and string or strings 1, 2 and 3 of the dulcijo, respectively. If all you have are guitar strings, then try two number 1 (e) strings and a number 2 (b) string. Feel free to experiment with different string. If you are going for a lower tuned instrument, then maybe two #2 and one #3 (unwound). If you are okay with wound strings (I don't like them if I'm likely to fret the string), then you can go lower yet.If not tuning to A'-A-D, then try to maintain the same ratios (pattern) in a lower tuning (i.e. 8-1-4) to get the same dulcijo effect in the lower tuning.</p>
<p>I gave my dulcijo to a friend in the States. Back in China now (arrived just this morning). When I get around to building my next dulcijo/banjo -like instrument, I will also use a hand drum and string it up like a stick dulcimer, but then and a 4th short drone string. So, essentially, a 4 string (non-plectrum, non-tenor) banjo. Always experimenting.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Rand.</p> I have just finished my first…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-08-12:2592684:Comment:7293022011-08-12T05:20:21.134ZMal Chilvershttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/MalChilvers
I have just finished my first one, Iused really thin plywood for the sound board but for the next one I plant to use the head from a tambureen mounted on a cheastnut rim which is been turned for me in the next couple of days.What gauge strings do you guys use please. Mal
I have just finished my first one, Iused really thin plywood for the sound board but for the next one I plant to use the head from a tambureen mounted on a cheastnut rim which is been turned for me in the next couple of days.What gauge strings do you guys use please. Mal I folks I have just this mi…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-08-11:2592684:Comment:7282872011-08-11T18:59:17.755ZMal Chilvershttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/MalChilvers
I folks I have just this minute finished my first dulcijo, but with a thin ply wooden sound board.can you please tell me what gauge strings you guys use .Mal (UK) Picture enclosed
I folks I have just this minute finished my first dulcijo, but with a thin ply wooden sound board.can you please tell me what gauge strings you guys use .Mal (UK) Picture enclosed Hi Mal,There is no set scale…tag:www.cigarboxnation.com,2011-07-19:2592684:Comment:6736302011-07-19T20:20:11.090ZRand Moorehttps://www.cigarboxnation.com/profile/RandMoore
<p>Hi Mal,<br></br><br></br>There is no set scale length, but the standard tuning is A'AD and common string widths are 0.009", 0.012", 0.009" banjo strings. If you make your scale length too long, you might break your strings when trying to tune up to A'AD. You can opt for thicker strings. You might also want to double check your strings, scale length and tuning with <a href="http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">a string gauge calculator like this…</a></p>
<p>Hi Mal,<br/><br/>There is no set scale length, but the standard tuning is A'AD and common string widths are 0.009", 0.012", 0.009" banjo strings. If you make your scale length too long, you might break your strings when trying to tune up to A'AD. You can opt for thicker strings. You might also want to double check your strings, scale length and tuning with <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.htm" target="_blank">a string gauge calculator like this one</a>.<br/><br/>Baltic birch, if it is anything like American birch, should be plenty strong for both the sound box (or drum hoop) and the neck. Unless you have made drums before, I'd go out and buy a pre-made drum and then attach neck/headstock assembly to it, using some kind of hardwood dowel for the piece of the neck that goes thru the drum. The neck should have a heel into which one end of the hardwood dowel is mounted (drill hole for it and glue it in). The tail end of the dowel should then be connected to the tail end of the drum with at least one fair sized wood screw (pre-drill the hole for the screw). My next dulcijo will be made this way (I have given thought to the project, but not yet built it). If you are planning on using a drum, it only has to have skin on one side. A double sided drum should work as well, but the additional skin may interfere when you assemble the neck to the drum. Covering the bottom of a drum with wood may act as a resonator as with resonator banjos (vs open back banjos) but real banjo resonators have a rounded convex shape which presents a concave (parabolic) shaped surface to the sound waves coming from the drum head, making for a better resonator than would a flat surface of wood. Most banjo resonators are also made of mahogany wood.<br/><br/>I saw your photo of you stick dulcimer. I think that this "paddle box" or "A-style" design would make an ideal dulcijo. The only difference would be the third string which needs to be shortened so it terminates at the 4th fret. I think you could add some wood to the side of the neck above the 4th fret (maybe use a dowel and glue both the wood and the dowel on for strength). This additional wood could then be used to hold the 3rd string's machine tuner. I think this will make it look more banjo like, and is easier to tune that most "disappearing 3rd strings" like I used on my dulcijo. [Once I broke the 3rd string on my dulcijo and had such a hard time restringing it that I ended up cutting a hole inside the side of the neck near the nut so I could fish out the string (coming from the bridge) and route it thru the little hole in the fretboard (so it could go up and over fret 0 and the nut to its tuner). Not so cool. Next time it's a side mounted tuner for my short string.]<br/><br/>Well, good luck with your build.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Rand</p>