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sound holes need advice

My last git had two sound holes on the front of the box but for my new one i want to put image on the box and no matter what way i put soundholes on the front counting the bridge pickup and holes its guna cover up too much of my image!

i have seen the soundholes on some gits not on the front of box but on the side mainly the side that points to your face! if i did it like that id have more room for image on front of box.

my question is will it take away from the sound acustically from the git?

any help appreciated in advance!

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on February 25, 2015 at 9:22am

is that a wooden resonator inside the box ??
ive only ever seen that done once on this site before, bravo..

there was a French mandolin maker who did this frequently in the 18th century, i forget his name.

great stuff *****

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Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on February 26, 2015 at 3:34am

Thanks PK. It is exactly that. I had/have actually considered putting a box inside a box, but the suspended wood resonator seemed a simpler way to start. I'm sure I saw a picture of something somewhere, or a tidbit of verbiage that made me thing "try a wood resonator", but I can't say for sure where or when it was. It was certainly a design inspired by something else out there, though not exactly this.

May have just been someone asking the question about the difference between how wood and metal resonate sound???

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Permalink Reply by Tim Pannabecker on February 25, 2019 at 7:17am

Sweet git

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Permalink Reply by Thumper on February 25, 2015 at 5:46am

Bluesheart, great minds think alike, obviously you drink as much as I do LOL.

Bad finger, I was thinking of doing something similar with a odd shaped old cigar box lid I own, does the insert rest directly on the thru neck with support pegs at the corners? That's sorta my approach to the mounting set up.

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Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on February 25, 2015 at 6:09am

The neck is clear from the inserted soundboard. Sort of a wood resonator type design. Despite the maple being quite thick, I'm surprised at the volume. I will thin the next one.

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Permalink Reply by gary sheldon on February 26, 2015 at 12:57pm

To me this has been a real interesting discussion. Especially comments by Wayfarer and Kid.

Kid mentioned the fact that sound holes decrease the effective area of the vibrating top. I think that is an important fact. Also his mention of decoupling the freely vibrating part of the top from the hard corner parts of the top.

From a decoupling point of view, it would seem that several smaller holes might be superior to one larger one. For instance in the 4 corners and/or near where the neck enters/exits the box. But then again, it seems like smaller holes would tend to block lower frequencies from leaving the box.

I am all about acoustic sound quality and volume. I usually play my new builds without a sound hole at all to see how it sounds. Then I go ahead and put in a sound hole. It always sounds better and louder to me with the sound hole.

Also, I use a decibelmeter to check all my builds.

For now, I am sticking with my single hole in the upper front corner. 1 3/4" or 2 1/4". My boxes tend to be large-about 9 X 12 X 3 1/2. No shower drain cover. Just a plastic grommet if anything.

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on March 1, 2015 at 7:55pm

sorry mate, you (may have) misunderstood me, soundholes may (do) decrease the area of a soundboard, but if done correctly, like the violin/guitar pics i put there, they actually increase the effective area of it with this mechanical decoupling.

lets say we're making a box guitar and our box is kinda narrow.

that join, where the top meets the side is really quite stiff (perhaps less so on the side which opens, i.e. opposite the hinge). This narrow dimension dramatically reduces the tops ability to sing, just as the 'bowing notches' on the violin. In fact the really effective area of the soundboard might be this:

Ok so lets stick a couple snazzy lightning bolts in there:

so you see, less becomes more ;)

get a skinny little box and see for yourself.

the best.

ps. this might help some see why they should try moving the bridge in from right on the edge of the box there too

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Permalink Reply by gary sheldon on March 1, 2015 at 9:26pm

Kid,

I too got a lot out of your discussion and drawings. I had never heard of or thought about decoupling before. Now I have an understanding of it and it makes total sense. Thanks! I appreciate your expertise along with other members as well.

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on March 1, 2015 at 10:10pm

cool bud.

its not really so much 'expertise' as perhaps 'insights' :) We've all got em. If you look at the pink ellipse in that middle pic, i really should've faded it at its edges if that makes sense to you, the wood doesn't just stop singing at an arbitrary line, but it fades/tapers off. On the bottom pic it ought fade too, but only toward the neck and tailpiece; and this is where wayfinder's arguments have merit (and where they meet mine although he doesn't yet perceive it), that wood sings right unto and on the edge of the hole. I have a few big archtop jazz guitars that I can actually observe this on with the naked eye, the bridge side of the hole singing its butt off while the other side is almost completely rigid. (you can also see this on any good violin)

If you want to really read into soundholes a great paper was published at MIT only this year, they studied nearly 500 violins from the Amati, Stradivari and Guarneri shops from three centuries. I'd particularly point you to p3. Theoretical proof of the linear proportionality of conductance o... and p9. Harmonic oscillation of violin elastic structure coupled with co... for more info what Im talking about and why the relationship between the soundboard and this 'bridge side edge' of the sound hole is key.