Some questions from eastern europe :)

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Permalink Reply by Bomb Strike on July 18, 2011 at 7:12am

Hi,

I have another question. I was searching for some hardwood, but it's a little bit difficult to find some around here. There is plenty of OAK, but its not the red oak it is very hard and very heavy, people say that it isn't a tonewood and is bad wood for instruments. But in one shop i have found some hardwood called "Bankirai" it is also very tuff wood and heavy as steel. Im not shure, maybe it would be good for fretboard or neck, but im not shure. Do you have any ideas about that "BANKIRAI" wood?

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Permalink Reply by Seaman Jay on July 18, 2011 at 7:39am

Quick google lookup gave (short version): a.k.a BALAU, Borneo rain forest wood, heavy and resistant, but prone to surface cracking and "leaks" - IMHO good stuff for a rustic shed or garden table but not really a material for a neck. 

BTW: oak is nobody's first choice when it comes to build a musical instrument. Like "lots of filler" and "hard to process"

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on July 18, 2011 at 8:43am

Bomb,

These links can give you a quick backgrounder on tone woods (or not, as John Calkin's article attests):

http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.
http://www.guitarsearcher.com/guitwoodguid.html
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/ultimate_guitar...
http://www.soundunlimited.co.uk/article_Guitar_Tone_Woods_39.html
http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/bodies/options/bodywoodoptions.aspx

Now that you're as expert on tone woods as me or anyone else here;-), remember that these are just boxes with strings stretched across them. Each one will be different. Personal opinion, based on two partially completed builds, plus 35 years of playing cheap to expensive to cheap guitars made from all kinds of woods? 1)Your ears rule! Not your friend's, not your hairdresser's, not your banker's. Your ears. 2) I think JohnCalkin may be on to something, at least partially. I'm building boxes from 3/8" Kayan plywood. Tap tested, when this wood is stiffened and braced and glued and screwed, give a musical, to my ears, set of tones. Therefore, it is a tone wood. What is the determining factor? The thickness (or thinness) of the wood! Remember, I'm using a 3-ply, very thin plywood, which in its sonic properties is about the same as a laminated spruce soundboard. My expensive Ovation Elite 5868 has a multiple-laminate top, for God's sake! It is a composite sandwich of spruce, small pieces of various hardwoods around the multiple small sound holes in the shoulders, and a thin, gorgeous flame walnut top. Most affordable commercial electric and acoustic-electric guitars do something similar. And yet, they sound great; different, maybe, but great. This is why I think John Calkin is on to something. Also, I can guaran- damn- tee you that the poverty- stricken old blues players weren't too particular about "tone woods!"

Don't over think this. Bottom line? Find the thinnest wood or plywood you can get yer hands on, and make something out of it that sounds good to you.

As my grandfather used to say, "He dicho!" Or if you have ever heard of Mammy Yokum: "Ah has spoken!"

The bottom line? Try to find

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on July 18, 2011 at 9:08am

Bomb,

Links to canjo plans and builders can be found here:


target="_blank">http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/canjoconsor...

Also, for a similar effect, try a diddley bow:

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/diddleyclass


Finally, go to this YouTube link, and watch Jack White of The White Stripes very quickly make and play a diddley bow (from the documentary film, "It Might Get Loud"):

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=xCFXe...

And this one:

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=xCFXe...

Sorry for the rant in my last post; I'm still decompressing after 5 days on vacation;-)

Oily

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Permalink Reply by Bomb Strike on July 18, 2011 at 4:29pm

Thank you for all the information. The bigest problem is in my geographical spot and money amount in my pocket :)

It is a problem to get good wood for musical instruments. And if I can find it it's just TO expensive. I am just missing the point to build cbg for i don't know.. let's say 50dollars. It's not the same. So I must act as THEY did. the good'old people had cigar boxes for free and broomsticks. now i can get an ipod easier then a peace of wood :) this is funny :) I'm going to country side for few days, I think I will find some stuff in my parent's vilage :) I had two guitars with twisted neck's and I hated it so much. Now I don't want to make a mistake and build something with love, and get a twisted neck. I need to find something. I am shure there is some OAK in my fathers garage I might try it out if I will not find any other woods. Thank's all of you for all the advices :)

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Permalink Reply by Grease Stains on July 19, 2011 at 1:41pm

i've had great luck using Candy tins for body's. To keep it simple i use a 25.5 inch scale (64.77 cm), your can round the numbers up or down, and the you'll easly find the fret positions if your used to guitar. check my page out if you like, there are a few pictures. i've used extremly light string to keep my necks from bending. and your english is better then mine, and its all i speak!  haha!
have fun and good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Bluesheart on July 22, 2011 at 7:08pm

Yep. That ammo box is cool in a way. Go electric for sure on that one or try to thin out the top from the inside(very hard to do without trashing it!) Great cigar box, glue will fix it just fine. I agree, try a can first for learning since it's hard to get boxes.

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on July 22, 2011 at 9:32pm

Hi Bomb,

Both boxes look nice. The crack in the second box seems to be in the lid (sound board). You could try fixing it by trying to flex the wooden lid a bit to open up the crack slightly and then force some glue into it (this may take a second pair of hands), then release the lid, and then clamp it so that the two edges of the crack are forced together. Wipe away the excess glue and then after it dries, sand away any remaining glue.

 

The Soviet military box is still usable for a cigar box guitar despite its thick lid. What you could do is to cut a hole in the top lid, mount a metal resonator of some kind and make a resonator box guitar out of it. People use a lot of different metal items of resonators, from paint can lids, to metal dog food bowls to tin cans. Search the photos on Cigar Box Nation using key words like "reso" and "resonator" and I'm sure you will come up with some good ideas. I can see a whole market opening up for ex-Soviet era wooden box based musical instruments...

 

Wood should be well dried. If you can't find kiln dried wood, look for wood that has been in dry storage for many years. A lot of CBG builders look for old furniture, wood recycled from torn down homes, and even wood from palates. To many, half the fun is going out and finding materials with which to build their instruments. You should also try to befriend your local woodwork shop and lumber supply folks, so you can borrow their machine tools to quickly shape your odd pieces of wood into something you can work with.

 

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on July 22, 2011 at 9:54pm

Maybe Oilyfool's broken link to canjos on CBN was to the Canjo Consortium discussion group. It includes discussions ranging from simple single string in-line soda can canjos, to fairly complex 5-string cookie/cake tin banjos and 6-string oil can guitars. You can even mellow out the sound of cake/cookie tin banjos by substituting a 2mm plywood veneer in place of the steel bottom (or top) sound board.

 

I live in China 9 months out of the year, and good building wood there is really rare. What they do is build with shitty wood and then cover it with 2mm plywood veneer to make it look half-way decent. They also use a lot of trim wood, which is actually the best kind of wood I can find in China. They sell it in 2.2m lengths, and it's 3cm wide and 0.5 cm thick. I glue it up to build both the sound boxes and the necks. Check out my discussion group "Home Made Resonator Boxes 101". I employ a lot of different building techniques than many other builders.

 

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by GARAGE HERMIT on July 23, 2011 at 7:02am

clicked on your link "HMRB 101" it goes nowhere, ???

 

Rand Moore said:

Maybe Oilyfool's broken link to canjos on CBN was to the Canjo Consortium discussion group. It includes discussions ranging from simple single string in-line soda can canjos, to fairly complex 5-string cookie/cake tin banjos and 6-string oil can guitars. You can even mellow out the sound of cake/cookie tin banjos by substituting a 2mm plywood veneer in place of the steel bottom (or top) sound board.

 

I live in China 9 months out of the year, and good building wood there is really rare. What they do is build with shitty wood and then cover it with 2mm plywood veneer to make it look half-way decent. They also use a lot of trim wood, which is actually the best kind of wood I can find in China. They sell it in 2.2m lengths, and it's 3cm wide and 0.5 cm thick. I glue it up to build both the sound boxes and the necks. Check out my discussion group "Home Made Resonator Boxes 101". I employ a lot of different building techniques than many other builders.

 

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by MBliss on July 23, 2011 at 8:47am

Reply by GARAGE HERMIT 1 hour ago

clicked on your link "HMRB 101" it goes nowhere, ???

 

His group is set to members only, (And apparently there is no way to change that once a group is set up)

So you have to join the group, and he has to approve it. He hates it as much as you. LOL!

But there is some interesting content there, you just have to be a member and logged into CBN to view it.

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on July 24, 2011 at 1:05am

This is another aspect of the problem that I haven't heard of before. I thought everyone could see the content, just not make comments. Maybe I should start a second version of this site making sure I don't set the security too high. Then copy the contend over and then kill the original site. Sheesh! The Ning folks make things hard.

-Rand.

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