Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Cause the Blue rat on March 6, 2017 at 4:01pm

You will need something to buffer the guitar's signal if your going to go direct to a PA. If you don't your guitar will sound very harsh.

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Permalink Reply by Mensh on March 6, 2017 at 10:49pm

Thank you - What IS that something?

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Permalink Reply by JL on March 7, 2017 at 2:14am

You need a DI box to convert the instrument level high impedance 1/4" to low impedance XLR to plug into the board/snake. $20-$40 for a passive one at the big box commercial store that sells factory made guitars, also available on-line.

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Permalink Reply by Mensh on March 7, 2017 at 2:39am

Thank you! 

Can you tell me how this will affect the sound? Is an EXPENSIVE DI Box a big sound-difference from a $40 one? 

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Permalink Reply by JL on March 8, 2017 at 4:44am

Using a DI box to connect a high-impedance git to the low impedance xlr input on a sound board does not change the sound of the git.

price goes up with features.  2 useful features are a shielded box and a ground lift switch which puts you closer to the $40 range.

prices above that you can get active ones that need a battery or wall wart and do other things beyond what you asked for.

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on March 8, 2017 at 4:59am

Do yourself another favor, and go to the big box commercial store. A/B the cheaper passive DI boxes versus the $100 and up battery-powered ones. Resist any sales pitch from the sales associates; simply tell them what you want to do, then politely ask them to leave you to it. Let YOUR ears be your guide. All other things being equal (guitar, pickup, amp, guitar cable), see if YOU can hear the difference. If you can't, get the cheap one.

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on March 8, 2017 at 5:45pm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-why-do-i-need-use-di-box

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on March 8, 2017 at 4:52am

Heath,

I have played live for nearly 40 years, and have both set up and run the soundboard for several bands I was in, or was friends with. I started featuring CBGs in my solo gigs about 4 years ago. I have migrated to increasingly smaller amps (the Pignose 7-100, the 200 W 6.5" speaker-equipped ZT Lunchbox, the Fender Champ 600 Reissue, the Roland Stereo Mobile Cube, for example). I also play both acoustic-electrics and electrics.

There are some questions I would ask you, before giving you some advice.

1) How big is the venue, and how many people will you be playing in front of?
2) What sort of mixing board will you be going into? 12 channel or more? XLR inputs + 1/4" inputs? Or something like a 4 or 8 channel Yamaha, Mackie, or Fender Passport?
3) How many Mics will be in use? Drums? Will they be mic'd? How many vocalists? Can the venue soundboard accommodate everything / everyone?
4) Will the mixing board have a snake?
5) Does the venue have DI boxes, and if so, which ones? They vary remarkably in quality (and price). I have used Radials almost exclusively. They are worth the money.
6) Will you need (trust me, you will) a monitor speaker? Does the venue have them? Can one be dedicated to you, or will you have to share?
7) Will you be using any effects?
8) Do you know and trust the ears on the house sound engineer? Not all of them are as sensitive or knowledgeable as you might wish. They need to make YOU sound good. Not LOUDER, but GOOD.

With a CBG equipped with a P90, here's what I would recommend. If you're insistent on going direct to the board, no effects, do yourself a favor, and get at least a 25-ft 1/4" male - XLR male cable (unless you are even further away from the board, or are using a snake). This will dramatically reduce any extraneous environmental noise from house lights, RF, powered speakers, computers, etc. Realize that, going direct to the board, you are completely at the mercy of your sound tech / engineer. You can only control the volume of the signal going to the board, everything else is left to the guy running the mix. And if there are no monitors, then what the house hears will definitely be different than what you hear onstage, even in a small venue that only holds 50 people, or especially outside in an open area.

I would highly recommend going through a DI box between your guitar and the board, or between your guitar and the snake going into the board. You will then have a signal buffer that will reduce the EQ tweaking the sound guy will have to do.

If you are going to use any effects, then your signal chain gets longer. Your effects need to go between your git and your DI box.

I understand not wanting to lug a heavy amp around; that's why I went to much smaller amps. One benefit to going through an amp that is mic'd is that you can use it as a guitar monitor, reducing your onstage volume to something bearable. The mic then runs to the board or snake + board, and allows the sound guy to dial in the house sound without affecting your stage volume. I personally like this setup better, as do a large number of professional sound engineers. I have miked a Pignose both open and closed, as well as my ZT and Fender. The Roland Stereo Cube has the ability to be used as both monitor, and send Line level sound out to the board without disabling the internal speakers; the ZT lunchbox has a switch that allows you to use it the same way.

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Permalink Reply by Mensh on March 10, 2017 at 1:44am

Thanks, everyone, for your replies!

I play at small venues for the most part, and we do traditional blues and Americana - I DO have an BAGGS Para DI, but that's for my Republic resonator. I guess I could always switch it in and out.

What I am looking to do is MELLO the Cigar Box Guitar sound - less harsh, less distortion.

I will get the gitty this week! So freaking excited...

Heath

www.thebluesprofessors.com

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on March 10, 2017 at 3:10am

Ok, I'm confused. You're having a guy build you a CBG with a P90, but you want to mellow its harsh, distorted sound?

1) How the heck do you know how your new git will sound if you don't even have it yet?
2) Your description of harsh, distorted CBG sound reads more like apiezo-equipped git. Yes, a P90 can be overdriven to be harsh and distorted; metal bands use them that way. But P90s are also used on jazz boxes. Your tone and volume controls, and the knobs on the mixing board, are there to help you.
3) Plugging a git direct to the board can indeed give you that harsh distorted sound; hence just one of the reasons to use DI boxes. But a good sound guy can also sculpt your tone to remove the harshness and distortion, on a properly-equipped mixing board.

If I were you, I'd try an experiment. First, plug your new git, when you get it, into your usual amp. Play around with the amp settings until you get the tone you want. Next, plug your new git direct to the board. See if it sounds like the tone you got on your amp. Work with the sound guy to get it the way you want. Finally, plug your git into your DI into the board, and see how that sounds. Tweak as needed. This is what sound checks at least an hour, if not more, before show time are for.

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Permalink Reply by Mensh on March 10, 2017 at 3:38am

Excellent advice, thank you - I am just anticipating possible issues...

I, and my guitarist partner, are the "sound guy." We play in Wine Bars and upscale restaurants. 

Your experiment is super-practical idea, and I will absolutely do this.

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on March 10, 2017 at 5:02am

Being your own sound guy can be an advantage. If you have really good ears, you can get just about what you want, assuming you have really long arms. ;-)

Always make sure to go to the furthest, darkest corner from the stage / PA speakers, and check your sound from there, as well as the front, center, and sides of the room. Remember that bodies absorb sound, so what you hear in an empty place may sound muffled once the venue is packed. Tweak when people show up, but don't overdo volume. As you undoubtedly realize, you are background for the important work of wine sales, relationship modification, and weekend ya-ya outgetting.

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