does it really mater on a cbg?

some you can tell are rubbish,the ones I took off the acoustic were a bit flimsy.

I bought some of these and used on my tin tin/acoustic build ,seems ok and much better than the flimsy ones.do they go out of tune.

the reason why I ask is that I tune my cbg before the hols and when I came back they were slightly out of tune.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6pcs-Classic-Guitar-Tuning-Keys-Pegs-Mach...

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i bought a 'pair of tuners on a rail ' from china and when they arrived they were both the same hand ''' shoddy

Shoddy packaging; disassemble one unit, flip the tuning knobs/worm the other way, reassemble, matched pair. Quicker and less stressful than returning for replacement.

They were so cheap i wasn't actualy suprised, and no, i didn't return them,they're are usable on the givaway demos at fests.

Regardless of what the seller calls them these are not classical guitar tuners.  They are in fact the same units Stew Mac sell as their budget units.  They have two holes in the post which (choice) is handy if you want to do a slotted head.


I bought a large bucket full (  >1000 units )  of this exact unit some years ago for $40, and have used them on guitars I've sold for around a thousand bucks.  (Im still only half way through this tuner stash)  ..see my pics..

As an aside, I have also used classical tuners (three on the one plate kinda deal) with steel strings a few times, they do work but i'd seriously recommend a slot head so they're supported at both ends of the post.  Their biggest weakness imho is the nylon sleeve around the string post, this can compress and change shape somewhat under the duress of a tensioned steel string.  The worm gear and brass gear are usually exactly the same component as what you see on this unit here, or on any open gear unit, they are all soft enough to lose teeth if things are out of square I assure you.   

There is nothing wrong with these tuners, they are about on par (although different from) Ben's budget trapezoidal chassis ones.  I of course say this with the benefit of having actually used the units in question many times.

Guess whats under the nylon on the cheap classical tuners. :-)

To paraphrase Joplin "It's all the same f***ing thing man".

I'm going to have to disagree with Wayfinder on this one. These are no more likely to strip out with steel strings than any other open gear tuner of comparable price point.

Generally if one strips out a tuner it's operator error. Trying to tune a heavy gauge string to an excessively high a pitch is the usual culprit. I've had one defective tuner of any type since I started playing and I'm not that lucky.

I scavenge these type of tuners off of inexpensive electric guitars found at yard sales and thrift stores whenever I can. There are a couple of builds in my photos that use this type of tuner.

The main reason I keep an eye out for them is because you can use these with a thicker headstock. Standard tuners require from 1/2 to 5/8" headstock thickness, the one linked to can be used with 3/4" making construction simpler.

Another benefit is that you can install horizontally in a slotted neck or vertically through the headstock, whichever style suits the build.

As far as your guitar going out of tune it is unlikely the tuners are at fault, an environmental factor is more likely. Tune the instrument and store it away from sunlit windows and air vents. After the settling in period it should hold tune properly with whatever type of tuners are used. If it still goes out of tune examine the construction of the instrument to determine what is moving.

yeah me too. as far as I'm concerned the most common cause of tuning problems is bad drilling. If your holes aren't perfectly perpendicular you can definitely strip gears, but a half decent drill press and nice square stock and you should be golden.

I have had exactly one dud tuner from CBGitty's budget (trapezoidal chassis) ones.   But I must've bought at least 500 of em in the last 5 years, probably quite a few more than that.

You could probably expect that failure rate (0.2%?) from $90 Schallers or Grovers just the same.

I also really like recycling rusty old ones.

drill carefully, make sure its just the right bit (not too big) and that the hole is nice and square and problems will be very rare, certainly not common enough to be spending big on brand name tuners :)

Wayfinder,

Which brand of classical open gear tuners did you use? Were all three sets the same brand?

I'm curious because it's really hard to strip a worm gear arrangement.

Companies producing cheap tuners buy those little brass gears in lots of hundred thousands and assemble them on classical, acoustic, and electric tuners.

Quality plastic coated post classical tuners made by reputable companies are not intended for steel strings. We are in perfect agreement on that point.

However the subject under discussion relates to the cheap ass Chinese mass produced tuners which are a totally different matter. :-)

Those guys build all their tuners using the same gears, same washers, same screws, and usually the same mounting plates with the only difference being the winding posts. The acoustic/electric steel posts are shorter and have the milling at the string hole end, that's it.

With that in mind if such a company's economy classical tuners fail their comparable in price steel string tuners will fail also.

I've used these style of  tuners on more than thirty guitars to date and I've never had one fail. I like them because you don't have to thin the headstock to 1/2" which allows me the overall thickness necessary when carving. 

The one failure that I mentioned was an economy tuner from Gitty, the gear was ground wrong on one tooth and would jump the worm. I replaced it with a spare gear and have had no complaints from the owner, who has purchased three additional guitars since the repair was done.

I build a lot more than I post and at the moment I have one unsold guitar and orders for 16 that I have to get ready in time for Christmas. I've built close to 200 guitars so far this year.

Point is, I've used tuners of varying prices and makes depending on the instrument or buyer's request. Within a price range from a company quality and durability is similar regardless of "type" of tuner until you venture out of the low price range into the area of actual grade differences.

Now for my personal guitars I buy the good stuff and use the appropriate style tuner for the instrument.

thanks for the replies. I though humidity might have some thing to do with it.

I keep my cbg's in my back bedroom which is my office.

during the day when sunny the room get rather warm and cold at night till the heating is put on.

the cbg's don't go out of tune a lot just a little tweek etc maybe a quarter turn or so then its fine.

they look well made and slowpaw use's them as well.

as for the holes they are drilled with no slackness in fitting the tuners.

a nice snug fit.

as it happens I'm going to buy some skull tuners/knobs off Gitty soon for my new olive wood project.

the small olive wood I'm going to cut down the middle and glue them onto the neck.

I'm considering using a couple of dowels on either side to give it strength.

the glue I use is tightbond whether that will be strong enough without dowels?? but I'm not going to take chances as this is for my son.he doesn't know and wont till Xmas.he can play 6 strings but he comes here he grab my cbg and play.

as for Bass I've bought proper Bass Tuners ..cost a bit!! but its only one off. thanks.john

If you have a doweling jig to keep things lined up in won't hurt to add a couple of dowels to each side.

John..is this some sort of elaborate joke..along the lines of "well, it was in tune when it left the factory"?? Guitars need the tuning checking everytime you pick them up...don't expect to come back to a guitar after a few days and find it still to be in tune. Small daily changes in temperature and humidity will cause everything to move a tiny bit, and strings do loose their elasticity a little over time. By the way, those machineheads are fine, and they are NOT classical style (classical tuners have bone or plastic rollers), they are simple drilled so that you can use them in either a conventional "paddle" headstock or  a slotted headstock...descriptions of stuff from Chinese suppliers is often a little wayward..hence the "classic" description.

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