heres a video on how to make a flat pick up!

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Dear John, I don't know why this is so difficult to understand: It's all there. Tin, magnets, wire. If you feel the need, do whatever suits you.

First thing you need to know is, I have never wound a pick up.I watched the video and in my opinion  this is  as an advertisement and not a tutorial. Joe is trying to sell pick ups with a facebook page.I guess the question is it ok for Joe to produce and sell flat pick ups ?

Hmmm. No, I don't think that's the question. Of course, it is OK for Joe to make and sell flat pickups. Just like it was OK for Leo Fender to make single coil pickups, copied and modified from 1920s and 30s pickups, and for Seth Lover to modify Fender's design to create the humbucker, and then for DeArmond, Fralin, Kinman, and a whole host of others to design and build their versions. And if you look at the Induction Pickup thread here on CBN, you'll see the same thing, with at least one CBN member commercializing his version.

No, I think the issue lies somewhere in that space between "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law." Some people take the No Rules philosophy to an extreme, while others putter around the edges.

Personally, I think that since Elmar has weighed in very graciously on this topic, and therefore "defended" himself (not that he needed any defending), the only issue here seems to be whether or not one wants to acknowledge Elmar as an innovator. While it might strike others, including me, as somewhat uncouth not to do so, remember that there's No Rules. It's a social nicety, not a rigid requirement. And honestly, all mackay did was post a video purporting to show how Joe makes his version of a flat pickup, and thereby encouraging others to purchase one from him. He didn't say "Lookie here, guys! All Elmar's secrets have been revealed! For free!" Nope, Elmar did that himself.

Good post Oily.

all mackay did was post a video purporting to show how Joe makes his version of a flat pickup, and thereby encouraging others to purchase one from him

the reason I posted this up is to give those an idea if they wish to make their own.

to be truthful I don't have any inclination to make my own nor am I interested in making a living from these cbg or whatever you call them..I make the box's myself as the cigar box's here are a little pricey.not only that I can say the git I made myself .I only make these to keep me occupied when I dont have anything to do.its only a matter of time when the chinese will start to make them. I seem to recall that these were selling for around $25 plus shipping and now the chinese are selling them for a lot less.


No worries, mate. People who want to make their own will do so. I make my own boxes here, too, for the same reason you do. I did it by thinking, drawing, figuring, and yes, watch patching a coupla videos. I took the ideas, and tweaked em a little to make em my own, based on what I wanted. I'll never make money at this hobby, either.

Hesitant to comment again, but here goes, the chase for a thin/ultra thin pup was very evident here in my early days, Elmar nailed it, combined with grace and an admirable attitude, he shared his knowledge, and many experimented and found it to be a winner in action, as said by others, this IS  a forum for ideas, and expansion of those ideas, and long may it be so, but acknowledgement is a nice "tip your lid" to the originator

Friends, please forgive any attitude or ire that comes across here.  Unintentional.  December was a very rough month and I expect some of that will unintentionally come across in this post.  I mean to offend no one.

CBN a terrific board, great information, with a lot of fine, helpful people here.  But dealing with the negativity and attitude from a few rotten apples is counterproductive.  So I am once again backing out of here, at least for a few months, and plan to use that time to be more productive (last time I did so I opened an entire music business).  All my discussions and articles will remain, as a lot of work from many people have gone into them.  I'm not "quitting" CBN, I'm just backing off from regular posting and investing my time in more beneficial and productive areas.

I'm posting now only because this thread deals with things directly related to my business.

1.  I want folks to know I had nothing to do with the creation of this video, as is obvious.  I do applaud its posting.  It makes a "taboo" subject open to the public, as it should be.  Elmar himself says he never intended the subject to be a deep, dark secret.  Flat pickup technology should not be lost to the community because the method is limited to the full knowledge of three people.  If I'd had this video I wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars researching this matter by trial and error... and I probably wouldn't even be in the business (which came about as an effort to recoup that expenditure of time and money).

2. Not two weeks ago I contacted both Elmar and Dan regarding the possibility of posting a "how to" video on flat pickups, which I felt it would benefit the community-- especially those who don't have the funds to buy them.  Elmar was for the idea and said he had wanted to for some time; he just didn't have the time to do it himself.  So being the creator of FlatPups, I'd say any such video is not an issue for him.  It's not a problem for me; I wanted to post such a video myself, but deferred to Dan's request that his livelihood not be so exposed.   I had intended it to be a unanimous decision or not at all.  I understood Dan's reasons and a video wasn't posted. Now it's a moot point; the info is out there.  I'm sure all three businesses will adjust--especially once people find out how time consuming and intense these are to make.

3. This being said, Joe had every right to post his video on YouTube and John Mackay had every right to post the link here.  And Scott had every right to post his respectful opinion against such.  Point/counterpoint.  Diversity is the spice of creativity.

4. Let's be honest:  despite popular belief, Elmar is not the inventor of flat pickups.  He is the creator of FlatPups.  Dan is an authorized marketer of Thinbuckers and has done a lot of R&D himself toward improving the product.   I am the creator of FlatCats, which are designed differently than either product. 

It's not that we didn't "invent" our individual products; it's just that we weren't the first to do so. There are large international companies such as Lace and National that have made flat pickups for quite some time.  In my research a couple years ago I discovered flat 1/4"-thick pickups have existed for decades.  So this is not a propriety, "I did it first" technology.  There is no "taboo subject" here.  Never was.  To my knowledge Elmar never claimed there was.

This forum is for all things CBG and for the education and benefit of the community.  I make flat pickups as a business and yet I don't mind this video being posted.  Wanted to do so myself. Elmar obviously doesn't object, so done deal.  No need for anyone else to worry about it.  I do feel sympathy for Dan, as he works at this full time and his "trade secrets" are now public knowledge.  But he's a good businessman.  He makes a good product and I'm sure he'll adjust.  These things are difficult to make.  Not everyone will want or even be able to spend the time required to make them.  (As a note: Lace charges $145 for their pickup and National charges $245.   Our prices are considerably mild.)

Technical nature:  I don't recommend using Danish oil for potting.  Stuff takes forever to dry (a week or even weeks).  I recommend using a quick-dry poly or Formby's Teak Oil (which is a special solution that dries very quickly).  I also recommend wrapping the final construction (once totally dried) in clear packing tape to protect those very fragile coils.

I hope this post is helpful and not offensive.  It simply explains my position in all this.  I figure if someone wants to make his own flat pickups and go to all that trouble (it is a time-intensive and somewhat complex task) s/he can do so.   If not, they'll buy from me, Dan or Elmar, depending on what features they prefer. 

Best wishes to all.

Hey Wayfinder, I hope you know that people on here appreciate what you do, and the work that you have put into the products that you make. This particular hobby can't grow without people like you.

Trademarks protect the identity of a product and producer

Patents protect a novel/unique design of a specific "thing" that is either the first of its kind or more innovative than an "expected evolution of the existing art"

Trade Secrets and Intellectual Property rights are legally respected protections of undocumented processes/procedures/materials/etc that are essential to the uniqueness of the patented item's production.

Copyrights protect the expression of an intangible idea (a story is the ideas contained in the writing, not the media it is published upon).

you'll be pleased to know joe's has stopped making them I ask him how much etc and this is his reply

Hi John,

Sorry but I don't make flatpick ups any more because I'm very busy with guitar building and woodworking.
Thats why I made the tutorial . Cheers,Joës

I don't see flatpup in there do you?

honestly I don't know what all the fuss about one video its not even a complete from start to finish.

some of you need to grow up,nobody is infringing on anybody so called rights because there is no rights. this has rear its ugly head in the past and Ben had to step in and the way things are going .......... Teapot...


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