Hey all.  I was hoping to build a 6 stringer on my next build, and would like to make my own truss rod for the build.  I am sure there are many out there that have already done this, so can you teach me what you have done? 

 

Is it possible to just drop a steal rod in, or should I have a rod that can be adjusted? 

 

I was thinking about using a long screw rod, placing a rectangular nut on one end and a regular nut on the other end (for adjustment). 

 

Lastly, I was thinking about covering the rod in epoxy before placing the fret board over it.  Any suggestions on this?  Should I wrap the rod in something beforehand so that it has the freedom to move during adjustment (sheath type thing)?

 

Oh, forgot...The neck will either be Japanese cedar or oak.  The fret board will be Japanese cedar.

 

Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated.

 

Douglas

 

 

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I've used the 3/16"inch diameter stainless steel Gibson style rod in my 3 homemade
Les Paul type builds.
I got those from Stew-Mac (around $12 with nut and anchor) but you should be able
to make yer own from a 3/16" inch diameter rod, thread it with a 10/32 die
(those are those hexagon shaped large "nuts" that have thread formers in the middle)
and thread the rod about 1 inch at the adjusting nut end,
and about the same at the anchor end. The anchor can be a flat piece of metal
threaded and lying cross wise (in a slot) at the 14th fret, or some facsimile that will
anchor the rod and prevent it from twisting when you adjust it.

MAKE SURE THAT YOU Ball PEEN THE ENDS OF THE THREAD AT THE ANCHOR END!
otherwise if the adjuster nut should sieze (anb sometimes they do), the thread rod
could unscrew at the anchor end and good luck trying to get it back into the threads
at that point..unles you are lucky. Peening means taking a hammer and bashing
on the threads once the anchor is screwed on.

The nut that Stew-Mac supply is a brass acorn shaped nut so that the adjusting wrench
will fit easily and the nut won't seize up on you over time. You can use an ordinary
10/32 nut, but those are very thin and not easy to wrench to provide the torque on the neck.

DO NOT cover the rod in epoxy glue! The rod has to move. bend or even twist slightly
to conform to the finger board in the direction you are adjusting the neck truss rod.
It is better to have a 1/4 inch slot for the rod, 7/16" of an inch deep and a 1/4 x 1/4
inch wood fillet on top of the rod. The wood fillet is a spacer that presses against the
finger board and provides the movement necessary for the finger board to adjust.
Don't glue this fillet in either. The only thing you should be gluing is the actual
finger board to the neck itself. The truss rod/fille are "moving parts".
For most of it's history, Martin used non-adjustable truss rods. These were rectangular-section rods, hardened (likely similar to spring-tempered) with a slight bend to them.
They seemed to work pretty well... You don't see many old Martins with warped necks.


Mark Werner said:
For most of it's history, Martin used non-adjustable truss rods. These were rectangular-section rods, hardened (likely similar to spring-tempered) with a slight bend to them.
They seemed to work pretty well... You don't see many old Martins with warped necks.

That is true..but Martin also used very stable mahoganies in their necks. I would think that
using recently cut, and seasoned hardwoods for necks would perhaps require a neck truss
rod..just in case you do need an adjustment. 3 or 4 string CBGs don't have as much tension
on the neck/headstock as a six string and if the CBG is played with a bottle neck or steel bar,
then it's not that critical. However on a 6 string it's more critical, especially if you are fretting it.
I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...


Jim Mitchell said:
I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.
I hear you on the cost and work side..... What I am making now is based on this video along with a couple of other ideas I have picked up along the way. I don't do a lot of the grinding done in the video. To shape the coupler I use about a six inch piece of all-thread, I put the coupler on that and hold it to wheel on my grinder, it moves towards the end then I flip it over and repeat until it is round. Takes a minute or two... I have gone to cutting the channel down to size on my bandsaw and using a square nut in place of the tee-nut. This gets a touch of JB weld to hold it in place on the channel (Much faster). I then drill out the treads on another square nut to act as a washer on the cap screw side of the rod. The channel in the neck is the same width as the square nut and everything is tight. On my reso's I have been using hardwood Oak, Walnut or Maple so strength is not an issue. The real reason for going through all of the trouble is I use a bolt on neck with a scale length of 22" and I need a truss rod that is only 12" + or - (the length of the box comes into play). Since I have a small cut off saw and have made a number of these, I have it down to about 15 minutes. I agree it is a lot of work and the cost is similar if you can find what you are looking for buy it. You might also do some looking around on sites like MIMF music instrument makers forum, Frets and OLF these guys have years of experience making all kinds of guitars and stringed instruments... Hope this helps the cause... Jim



carverman said:


Jim Mitchell said:
I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.
I really appreciate the help fellas. I will have to do some experimenting with the rods. I am really surprised that homemade truss rods have not become the norm on the nation (for those that need them). Really, all I want is to keep the shape of the neck that I build with out it bending later on, so I may just try doing a straight rod and drop it in a channel that goes the length of the neck. The video that was posted was sweet too, so I will try that down the line too. Thanks again to all of those that replied.

D



Jim Mitchell said:
I hear you on the cost and work side..... What I am making now is based on this video along with a couple of other ideas I have picked up along the way. I don't do a lot of the grinding done in the video. To shape the coupler I use about a six inch piece of all-thread, I put the coupler on that and hold it to wheel on my grinder, it moves towards the end then I flip it over and repeat until it is round. Takes a minute or two... I have gone to cutting the channel down to size on my bandsaw and using a square nut in place of the tee-nut. This gets a touch of JB weld to hold it in place on the channel (Much faster). I then drill out the treads on another square nut to act as a washer on the cap screw side of the rod. The channel in the neck is the same width as the square nut and everything is tight. On my reso's I have been using hardwood Oak, Walnut or Maple so strength is not an issue. The real reason for going through all of the trouble is I use a bolt on neck with a scale length of 22" and I need a truss rod that is only 12" + or - (the length of the box comes into play). Since I have a small cut off saw and have made a number of these, I have it down to about 15 minutes. I agree it is a lot of work and the cost is similar if you can find what you are looking for buy it. You might also do some looking around on sites like MIMF music instrument makers forum, Frets and OLF these guys have years of experience making all kinds of guitars and stringed instruments... Hope this helps the cause... Jim



carverman said:


Jim Mitchell said:
I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.
Here are some pictures of what my version looks like....

With this style of rod you can route a flat channel.

Douglas Eric Marsalis said:
I really appreciate the help fellas. I will have to do some experimenting with the rods. I am really surprised that homemade truss rods have not become the norm on the nation (for those that need them). Really, all I want is to keep the shape of the neck that I build with out it bending later on, so I may just try doing a straight rod and drop it in a channel that goes the length of the neck. The video that was posted was sweet too, so I will try that down the line too. Thanks again to all of those that replied.


D



Jim Mitchell said:
I hear you on the cost and work side..... What I am making now is based on this video along with a couple of other ideas I have picked up along the way. I don't do a lot of the grinding done in the video. To shape the coupler I use about a six inch piece of all-thread, I put the coupler on that and hold it to wheel on my grinder, it moves towards the end then I flip it over and repeat until it is round. Takes a minute or two... I have gone to cutting the channel down to size on my bandsaw and using a square nut in place of the tee-nut. This gets a touch of JB weld to hold it in place on the channel (Much faster). I then drill out the treads on another square nut to act as a washer on the cap screw side of the rod. The channel in the neck is the same width as the square nut and everything is tight. On my reso's I have been using hardwood Oak, Walnut or Maple so strength is not an issue. The real reason for going through all of the trouble is I use a bolt on neck with a scale length of 22" and I need a truss rod that is only 12" + or - (the length of the box comes into play). Since I have a small cut off saw and have made a number of these, I have it down to about 15 minutes. I agree it is a lot of work and the cost is similar if you can find what you are looking for buy it. You might also do some looking around on sites like MIMF music instrument makers forum, Frets and OLF these guys have years of experience making all kinds of guitars and stringed instruments... Hope this helps the cause... Jim




carverman said:


Jim Mitchell said:
I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.
That square type is what Washburn used in their bass necks in the 80's - maybe still do. But once set , those things are rock solid ..... even under the tension of bass strings.
Anywhere between 150-200 lbs. is common on a bass, so that is gonna be more than strong enuff.

On a bass, thats what I would do. On a guitar, the "folded rod" method ( fishbake in the first reply) I think would be fine.
On a cbg, probably the most I would do is a piece or 2 of 1/8" x1/4" er so flat steel to act as a "stiffener".
This is commercially done ... usually with graphite rods to keep weight down, but I think the flat steel from Lowes or HD or where ever would be fine.


Matt - IMHO
Jim, do you have any pics of the truss rod set in the groove of the neck showing the tail end (where the neck would be bolted into the box)? I would like to see what you did. Very nice work by the way. Douglas


Jim Mitchell said:
Here are some pictures of what my version looks like....

With this style of rod you can route a flat channel.







Douglas Eric Marsalis said:
I really appreciate the help fellas. I will have to do some experimenting with the rods. I am really surprised that homemade truss rods have not become the norm on the nation (for those that need them). Really, all I want is to keep the shape of the neck that I build with out it bending later on, so I may just try doing a straight rod and drop it in a channel that goes the length of the neck. The video that was posted was sweet too, so I will try that down the line too. Thanks again to all of those that replied.


D



Jim Mitchell said:
I hear you on the cost and work side..... What I am making now is based on this video along with a couple of other ideas I have picked up along the way. I don't do a lot of the grinding done in the video. To shape the coupler I use about a six inch piece of all-thread, I put the coupler on that and hold it to wheel on my grinder, it moves towards the end then I flip it over and repeat until it is round. Takes a minute or two... I have gone to cutting the channel down to size on my bandsaw and using a square nut in place of the tee-nut. This gets a touch of JB weld to hold it in place on the channel (Much faster). I then drill out the treads on another square nut to act as a washer on the cap screw side of the rod. The channel in the neck is the same width as the square nut and everything is tight. On my reso's I have been using hardwood Oak, Walnut or Maple so strength is not an issue. The real reason for going through all of the trouble is I use a bolt on neck with a scale length of 22" and I need a truss rod that is only 12" + or - (the length of the box comes into play). Since I have a small cut off saw and have made a number of these, I have it down to about 15 minutes. I agree it is a lot of work and the cost is similar if you can find what you are looking for buy it. You might also do some looking around on sites like MIMF music instrument makers forum, Frets and OLF these guys have years of experience making all kinds of guitars and stringed instruments... Hope this helps the cause... Jim




carverman said:


Jim Mitchell said:
I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.

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