Double peizo's

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Permalink Reply by Jerryrig240 on March 24, 2010 at 12:13pm

Well...today I think I might have some time to work on my philly box. I am going to take out the peizo set up I have in it now and just hot glue a peizo on the back of the box for a trial run....I am sure it will sound great....I just was trying something different and needless to say it did not work out.....sad part is...there is a spot I could have put it in right under the bridge where the neck joins to the box right...I guess I could try to hot glue it there and tuck it in there as far as I could get it....we shall see.

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on March 24, 2010 at 12:44pm

Trial and error, its the best way to find what works, good luck.

Jerryrig240 said:

Well...today I think I might have some time to work on my philly box. I am going to take out the peizo set up I have in it now and just hot glue a peizo on the back of the box for a trial run....I am sure it will sound great....I just was trying something different and needless to say it did not work out.....sad part is...there is a spot I could have put it in right under the bridge where the neck joins to the box right...I guess I could try to hot glue it there and tuck it in there as far as I could get it....we shall see.

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Permalink Reply by David West on March 24, 2010 at 9:30pm

I installed the jjb tripple piezo setup in my sons BlueRidge guitar as his Christmas present. He likes it. Porduct seemed very high quality.
Dave


Claude said:

Hi Jerry, I'm afraid the poster above is misinformed about using multiple peizo's. I understand that most of us want to use the most inexpensive materials we can get. I got some Piezo's from JJB Electronics, I did this on a recomendation from Jay at Tiny Guitars a member here and really great guy. These Piezo's cost a bit, but they are great. Here's is what is on their website:

This system utilizes a dual piezo configuration for a crisp sound. The dual piezo
configuration offers a few advantages over single piezo systems. Having two
piezo’s affords you the opportunity to place them at two different points on the
soundboard thus resulting in an improved dynamic range due to the fact that they
transmit the resonation found at more than one point. These special surface
transducers are under less pressure than under saddle pickups thus decreasing
the likelihood of them transmitting a percussive or harsh sound. Each piezo is
designed to pick up the resonation found in a significant amount of the
soundboard. These do not "fade" or distort at high volume or with high-power
systems. The highs are crystal clear while the lows are, what they should be, low!
They are very responsive. This pickup configuration is offered in several high end
guitars. All of our products feature quality components and construction. These
utilize a ¼ mono jack that is of equal quality to those manufactured by
Switchcraft. These will work great in a variety of instruments. Mandolins, ukulele’
s, bass guitars, banjo’s, violins, dobro’s, dulcimers, stomp boxes, etc. The
possibilities are endless! These, like all of our systems, can be installed in about
15 minutes! They are a very simple and inexpensive means of turning your
acoustic instruments in to acoustic electric. Please don’t let the price fool you!
http://www.jjb-electronics.com/PPS-200.html
Oh yes, they have many sound samples on their site. It's always a good thing when you can hear sound samples.

As others have said your main challenge is probably the plastic housing on your Piezo's.
Best of luck. Oh yes, the people at JJB are wonderful to deal with, really great folks.

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Permalink Reply by Jerryrig240 on March 26, 2010 at 3:00am

I wonder what they do to them to make them black? I wonder if they dip them in a plastic dip or something. Here is a quistion....is there anything that can be added to a pezio to make it sound better? Some builders out there say they have "special componets" with their peizo's to make them sound better.....I tend to wonder if that is just not a gimick. My peizo sounds find....

Randy S. Bretz said:

http://www.jjb-electronics.com/ check out this company`s piezo set ups, worth a look!!!!!

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Permalink Reply by BT Cohosh on March 26, 2010 at 10:14am

Hey!

I'd third & fourth what folks are saying about taking the piezos out of the case. I recently conducted an experiment with a rebuild--I installed two piezos, but then wired a switch between them so that I can cut one out of the circuit. A single piezo produces a slightly louder, "dirtier" sound, which might be good, depending on your tastes. Two piezos together is a *little* quieter, but much cleaner and *much* less feedback-prone. It gives me the best of both worlds.

Enjoy.

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on March 26, 2010 at 3:44pm

Multiple piezo's have less signal strength which probably accounts for less extra noise, great test with the switch. Its kind of like adding more light bulbs to a flashlight each one you add to the same batteries makes them a bit dimmer. Two seems to work for cutting out noise but keep adding them on and it will get quieter.

BT Cohosh said:

Hey!

I'd third & fourth what folks are saying about taking the piezos out of the case. I recently conducted an experiment with a rebuild--I installed two piezos, but then wired a switch between them so that I can cut one out of the circuit. A single piezo produces a slightly louder, "dirtier" sound, which might be good, depending on your tastes. Two piezos together is a *little* quieter, but much cleaner and *much* less feedback-prone. It gives me the best of both worlds.

Enjoy.

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Permalink Reply by NoxTerran on April 1, 2010 at 3:06pm

here is what i have learned about peizo pickups, LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION!! a fraction of an inch off from the "sweet spot" can make a huge difference, i use peizo's in mine and even with weedwacker string they are pretty loud when aplified. my reccomendation (if possible) use electrical tape and tape it in a different place and try different spots all over the box, specifically under the bridge, when you find the most volume and the sound you want, glue it in place there. i dont glue mine i samwich them between our support block and the box but i also dont do neck-through builds, everything i do is neck-on-box so that makes it easier for me to futz with the placement

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Permalink Reply by Warren on April 5, 2010 at 9:26am

If you're nervous about spending the bucks for the high end stuff (as am I, another newbee), CB Gitty, who advertises on this site, offers a less expensive option and it doesn't hurt too bad to screw something up:
http://www.cbgitty.com/cubecart/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=9

As others have posted, i too taped my pickup in a few different places before landing on a sweet spot. then I super glued it down - next time I'm trying the hot glue gun as recommended. Well, technically, the first build still has duct tape holding the pickup in place. Feedback is gone and I'm afraid to fiddle with it ;)


Jerryrig240 said:

I wonder what they do to them to make them black? I wonder if they dip them in a plastic dip or something. Here is a quistion....is there anything that can be added to a pezio to make it sound better? Some builders out there say they have "special componets" with their peizo's to make them sound better.....I tend to wonder if that is just not a gimick. My peizo sounds find....

Randy S. Bretz said:

http://www.jjb-electronics.com/ check out this company`s piezo set ups, worth a look!!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on April 6, 2010 at 6:51am

I just read on Google Books (Getting a Bigger Sound: Pickups and Microphones for Your Musical Instrument By Bart Hopkin pp55) that wiring piezos in serial (+ ---(+/-)--(+/-)--- -) will weaken the signal as the high impedence is additive. Wiring them in parallel will divide the impedence. Having a large impedence will produce a lower signal and you will have to add in a pre amp.

-WY

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on April 6, 2010 at 9:06am

Thats what I've been trying to say, just not so well. But it seems that 2 is negligable and the benefit of picking up vibrations in 2 spots is worth the minor loss. Plus is seems, from what I have read here and other places, the loss may cut out some of the extra noises we don't want. Another but, one piezo fitted between the bridge and lid (outside the box) also picks up the best string sound, and less box noise, it has been said as the best sound is up to you the player.

Wes Yates said:

I just read on Google Books (Getting a Bigger Sound: Pickups and Microphones for Your Musical Instrument By Bart Hopkin pp55) that wiring piezos in serial (+ ---(+/-)--(+/-)--- -) will weaken the signal as the high impedence is additive. Wiring them in parallel will divide the impedence. Having a large impedence will produce a lower signal and you will have to add in a pre amp.

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on April 6, 2010 at 9:17am

Right. Piezos seem to pick up a LOT of box vibration tho too -- box moving against your body, hands on the neck, slides banging on the frets (yes, it does happen). Especially when you use a pre amp. Just about anything that comes in direct contact with the box there is a tendency to 'hear' those vibrations and gets magnified 10x. Almost like putting your ear against a glass that is on a wall. You hear the wall (vibrations).

Dampening does help. I need to experiment with some dampening techniques even tho I pack the piezo in silicone and sandwich between wood pieces.

I think Skeeix has an idea using the cork.

-WY

MichaelS said:

Thats what I've been trying to say, just not so well. But it seems that 2 is negligable and the benefit of picking up vibrations in 2 spots is worth the minor loss. Plus is seems, from what I have read here and other places, the loss may cut out some of the extra noises we don't want. Another but, one piezo fitted between the bridge and lid (outside the box) also picks up the best string sound, and less box noise, it has been said as the best sound is up to you the player.

Wes Yates said:

I just read on Google Books (Getting a Bigger Sound: Pickups and Microphones for Your Musical Instrument By Bart Hopkin pp55) that wiring piezos in serial (+ ---(+/-)--(+/-)--- -) will weaken the signal as the high impedence is additive. Wiring them in parallel will divide the impedence. Having a large impedence will produce a lower signal and you will have to add in a pre amp.

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on April 6, 2010 at 9:18am

Not a bad idea Skeesix! Cork. Very interesting. I hate the harsh sounding High notes.

-WY

Skeesix said:

Getting the piezo out of the case will make it much louder. Mounting it underneath the bridge (outside the box) will make it even louder. I mount mine on a piece of cork to dampen extraneous noises from handling the box.

I did a double piezo wired in parallel for a bass project. It sounded just as loud as a single piezo, but it calmed down the harsh sounding highs.

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