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Diatonic 4 String??

Hi all,

I've just signed up here today so I shall start by saying a big HELLO to everyone and that I look forward to being involved in the Cigar Box following.

My first question for you is this, I have been playing with a friends CBG and I am now keen to get building, I want start by building one with a diatonic scale and was wondering if it is possible to have a 4 string arrangement with it? I am aware that Dulcimers can have four strings (two very close together) but I am thinking 4 independent strings like your average 4 string CBG?

And secondly I have been wondering what it would be like having 4 strings but using 1 as a bass string, has anyone done this and does it work?

Thanks for taking the time to read, I must apologise if any of my future questions seem a bit silly, but I am new to the world of Cigar box building and I have a very over active imagination, so some of my ideas may be very strange and absurd.

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Permalink Reply by Sik Yeti on May 27, 2012 at 10:46am

Nice, thank-you, I shall definitely look into that, And there is no danger of me making anything for sale, I just want my own CBG to mess around with. (and hopefully learn how to play.)

I'm currently in crossed minds whether to go for a standard 4 string or a 3 string and bass at the moment. I want to try and create a Gibson style electric so will be using pick-ups, do you know if its possible to use a standard bass pick-up for all 4 strings if i do the 3+1 bass layout or do i have to go for an individual pick-up for the bass as shown in the picture of Ted Crockers CBG?

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Permalink Reply by Diglydog on May 27, 2012 at 11:04am

Jef, I wasn't around here in 2010 when you made the video and I don't pretend to understand the theory, but that is a truly ingenious instrument and a fabulous piece of work.

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Permalink Reply by BenBob on May 27, 2012 at 4:59pm

Man you do nice work and it's very cool that you did it, but patented? Partial, diatonic fretting goes back at least to the Renaissance. Using that idea to fret up a basic open chord seems rather obvious.

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Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on May 27, 2012 at 5:57pm

Yes, but lookee all those split frets. That's where the magic happens.

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Permalink Reply by BenBob on May 28, 2012 at 1:55am

Yeah man that's how the game's played, good luck with your business deals, hope you make a sweet chunk of change. Seriously.

On a philosophical side, I just think that patents should be for serious innovations that took significant work or brilliance to develop. And the fact is, diatonic, partial fretting nothing new. It's HUNDREDS of years old and rather obvious. Take any number of strings and tuning, and I could draw up a diatonic fret pattern in seconds.

But it's really awesome sweet that you actually are BUILDING it. That's real effort, and although I think the patent system is totally broken, I'm glad if one of the nation here can work it for pay. Best of luck!

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Permalink Reply by BenBob on May 29, 2012 at 4:45am

Sorry to hear about Greg Ham. I definitely remember Men at Work they were great. This is the first I've heard of the lawsuit and it's another example of how IP laws are failing us. A guy can't record something he just jammed out on the flute because at some point in the last 100 years or whatever, somewhere, somebody owns that lick. Stupid.

To try to explain where I'm coming from on the fretting thing, here is a site that describes playing D major in DADFAD tuning. Then, just put frets under the notes you want to use like they do on the kabosy (instrument from Madagascar). Maybe I am missing something like you said, but the bottom 4 strings of the DADFAD / D-major scale pattern looks just like your patented fret pattern on "Dewey's neck."

Any guitar player, like myself, who has experimented a lot with confusing open tunings has thought of only having partial frets where the major scale is. Nobody builds it because it would be a lot of work resulting in a musically-limited instrument. It's better for most to just learn those scales with your fingers on a chromatic instrument.

Perhaps you're right and I just don't get it, I'll allow for that. I respect what you've accomplished and don't want to bash you in any way. My comment about what I think should be "patentable" was poorly stated, and I apologize for the implication of that on your work. You put a lot into developing this, and I never meant to imply that you're stealing ideas or doing something unethical. I seriously wish you the best and hope that you and your investors make good money and bring music to more people.

My issue is more philosophical than anything else. I see tunings and scales as mathematical - something you discover, not something you invent. I could easily write a short script to generate split-fret patterns for every mode in every possible tuning. It is quite finite. Should I then be able to patent them all? I don't believe so. Those patterns are part of nature and nobody should be able to own any of them.

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Permalink Reply by Grease Stains on May 31, 2012 at 4:21pm

Lol, i gotta say, right, wrong or indiffernet you always come off like a Knob. " yet I gotta spend two days trying to justify myself to a relative nobody like you?? (sorry, but hey man, one , count em, one build) ".

All the same, your still a hell of a builder!

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Permalink Reply by robert jones on May 31, 2012 at 4:28pm

Easy there tiger, you pat yourself on the back much more and your likely to do yourself permanent harm.

Thanks for being so pleasant and reasonable though.

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Permalink Reply by BenBob on May 31, 2012 at 8:23pm

Thanks for your humble opinions there, kid. I tried to share my thoughts respectfully and you injected straw men into it to knock down with contempt and abuse. If that wasn't enough, you patronized me according to your assumptions of my musical and technical knowledge, which was all immaterial anyway.

I don't engage people who behave like that, so I'm no longer interested in this. Besides, I'm too busy working on my patent for a kazoo that only plays in Phrygian mode. Peace.

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Permalink Reply by Sik Yeti on June 1, 2012 at 1:20am

That's ok, it has been quite an amusing read so far, never had so much response on a forum before, ialthough I must say the discussions have gone far too deep for my limited knowledge.
About the neck, that would be excellent to have it, and I am very greatful for your offer, I live in Kent (uk) if you can let me know the price of postage I will be very happy to take you up on the offer.
Thanks again for your generosity and help, I will try my best to give the neck an honourable body to compliment it.

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Permalink Reply by Blind Kiwi on May 28, 2012 at 7:25am

Yep, read all the discussions below and have to say, I have looked at a LOT of guitars and stringed variants over the last few years (A sickness I think most here might understand) and the first thing that jumped into my mind when I looked at the photos above was "At Last, Something different!"

Great idea and innovation. Love to play one, one day